abusing the sanctuary to level up

Before I start discussing the topic, let’s get one thing straight: this is not abuse, but legal gameplay that the update itself allowed. Even the official Path to Ancestry: Details & FAQ says:

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Can I play the various layers multiple times?

Yes, layers can be played multiple times.

Each layer has a cooldown after it has been completed, and units deployed also require time to return home.

So there's not abuse, just gameplay that update offered. And yes ... it sucks. It sucks so badly that it completely ruined game experience for many players.

I posted my views about the update, which haven’t changed since a month and a half ago.

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Players invested years to build up their characters over several hundred levels, then another update came, and another… each one messed up the game more.

And now we have players who spent 10+ years to reach, let's say, 3000 levels, and then players who reach 500 levels in just a few weeks.

Not that GameForge really care, but this update basically screwed over all the players who invested their money and time ... a lot of time, to patiently build their characters for decades, because it devalued all their past work in this game.

I'm not angry or anything, I will manage it, but imagine players spending years grinding and competing, then taking a short trip or vacation… only to come back and find players who didn't invest even 10% of their time and money they put in over the years breathing down their neck.

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and

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know for a fact that some extremely active players, as example #1 ranked on s49 uk, already said "f**k this s**t, I am out of it"... and it's not like we will see an influx of new players to those old servers.

So if you're my competitor for a years, you will have basically only two options: to forget about your life and circle jerk on an hourly basis as I do, or stay behind, despite of everything you invested in your gameplay past 20 years... and not just behind me, but also those who started to play the game a few weeks ago while you were building your character for a decade or more.

Say whatever you want, this hourly circle jerking, when players do 20+ levels daily, completely unbalances players' long-term gameplay.

The way the game was at the beginning, players spent a year or two to reach the first 100 levels. Game system was extremely hard, it took days of gold collecting to purchase new piece of equipment.

Then the game system changed, and it took a year or something to reach 200 levels. Then the game system changed again. Those big events started coming on a regular basis, so a player needed about a year to reach 500 or more levels. That's accumulating a decade or something of persistent playing to reach a few thousand levels, and now we came to a position where a player needs a month to reach 600 levels. One year, that means 10% of the effort, to do the same as those players did in 10 years on the same server.

If you don't see how those lower layers circle-jerking is unbalanced and overpowered, I can't really help you, but it is. Those who invested in this game the most (money and their time) are the ones getting f***ed the most.

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There are around 20 players on my server, 48 UK, including me, who gained more than 500 levels in a month. In fact, I think I gained around 800 lvls last month.

Can you imagine that? Freaking 25-30 levels per day, with no illegal crap involved. People are turning into robots, or they fall behind so badly that it's not even worth bothering anymore. This game is completely f***ed up.

yeah been playing pretty hardcore for a month, and I have completely caught up with the big levels player who started playing two years ahead of me.

Hi, but think about playing instead of complaining... for me they made a very satisfying update to get people back to playing. So I'm in favor of leaving the plans as they are, think about having fun instead of always slowing you down. I could say the same thing too, I've been playing since 2009 and with the latest update I see people who have been playing for months and have already done what I did in 10 years, they in 3 months. But I don't care, it's a game and that's fine. Think about having fun, don't always complain. I'm 100% in favor of open plans.

Quickii  Lord Syrio  Mika  Chento

so which cave level we need to spam? 😁

imtano2010

That's right, finally an update that has improved the game a bit after many years... but there will always be those who complain... someone has more time to play, someone less, and that's it. Cheers!

I was tired of doing the same things all the time. There is a nice algorithm to solve right now, and there are things we can do in the game whenever we want.

The update is excellent.

My only problem is that I don't get banned for wandering around the floors.

I opened a new account and I'm climbing up fast again. I constantly wander around the first 10 floors. He didn't even step into story mode because of my fear

I only spend 186 AP in the cave and walk around the first 10 floors. I write this to the support team. When my account rises to the top, I hope I don't get banned again.

If there is a daily limit, let them tell me, otherwise I am obsessed, I wake up at night, wander around the first 10 floors and go back to sleep. It only takes me a few minutes.

It is obvious that some players are using this update solely to level up faster or to boost their overall loot haul.

The update will continue to reduce the game's original core concept—the conflict between werewolves and vampires—down to nothing more than a race to see "who can level up the fastest." With that, the last shred of the game's original "culture" will be lost.

Quote from BR984

I think it's unfair to those of us who play Caves or Story Mode because we don't have all day to spend every hour in the Sanctuary

you spend hours doing the story mode tp finish all the AP, and you need health items for it.

you can do the first 10 layers in under 5 minutes if you are pressed for time, and get more XP then the story mode.

even if you do this twice a day and grave time in between you lvl up faster then doing the story.

Quote from BR984

Hello creatures of the night

I want to start a discussion about the Ancient Ruins

I think many players are abusing this system to level up too quickly

What's the point of only being able to do 10 layers per hour?

I think it's unfair to those of us who play Caves or Story Mode because we don't have all day to spend every hour in the Sanctuary

I think it's URGENT to modify the Ruins system before many players who have leveled up with time and effort quit the game

In my opinion, they should reduce the experience granted during the first few layers, or extend the time allowed to complete them

This is a bug, and many people are taking advantage of it.

Mika  Chento  Darcoon

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I disagree. Thanks to this update, we can balance things a bit for regular players compared to those using bots. Previously, bot users could level up as many times as they wanted without any restrictions.

I have already seen advertisement of botting ruins layer, just a matter of time before more of these botters

Quote from jansen4896

I have already seen advertisement of botting ruins layer, just a matter of time before more of these botters

It's only a matter of time before bot creators automate layers 1 through 10, and that's the end of it.

Quote from Dirux

I disagree. Thanks to this update, we can balance things a bit for regular players compared to those using bots.

On the contrary. It's more drastic than ever. You can't balance things even against more active players now, let alone against those who already use bots or will start using them over time.

First 10 layers? Peace of cake, I am doing them 30. Well, several of us on my server do…

Go on vacation for 2 weeks, have a busy couple of weeks or something, and when you come back there will be a 500-level difference. In 2 - 3 weeks.

Quote from imtano2010

I've been playing since 2009 and with the latest update I see people who have been playing for months and have already done what I did in 10 years, they in 3 months. But I don't care, it's a game and that's fine. Think about having fun, don't always complain. I'm 100% in favor of open plans.

I think some of you don't fully understand the implications and consequences of this update. I'm not sure what to attribute that to - maybe not even to you personally, but rather to the lack of competitiveness on the server you play on.

Quote from savage.af

you can do the first 10 layers in under 5 minutes if you are pressed for time, and get more XP then the story mode.

even if you do this twice a day and grave time in between you lvl up faster then doing the story.

The fact that you can do two rounds of ten is completely insignificant. It's like you would do one level every 10 days before the update.

It's a drop in the ocean compared to what the rest of us do on more active servers.

And if server merges ever happen, while some of us are still actively engaged in wars, you'll remain a forgotten and irrelevant factor somewhere far far behind.

Why?

Because while you'll spend what you think is a large part of your day doing those five or ten rounds of first ten layers, I'll be doing 12 - 15 rounds on the first ten, 8 rounds on the second ten, and 6 rounds on the third ten. At a minimum. Sometimes more.

And while you struggle and think you've achieved a lot with 100 - 200 levels per month, I'll be doing 800 per month. And this will accumulate.

And when you eventually want to have fun like the "big boys" by participating in wars instead of just being a bystander in some random semi-inactive clan with no one communicating, there won't be a clan willing to take you in.

Because no top clan is going to be interested in accepting every random player who contributes nothing to the clan in terms of wars, while also posing the risk of being a spy account.

You may say that you don't care about all of that, and that's perfectly fine. But since this is a competitive game where players compete, you can probably imagine that some people do care. And that's perfectly fine as well.

No, the update is bad. That's not a complaint - look, I am doing more levels manually than most of you ever will. So in terms of competitiveness, it actually works for me. But I also know how much of one's life you need to invest to stay relevant and compete in this competitive game now. Just as argos posted above, all the beauty of the game is gone.

It's not about wolves and vamps anymore, but about being a robot - sitting behind a PC for 15 hours a day or slipping into oblivion. People are turning into robots. And even some long-term active players are quitting. Because, well, summer is coming, and they aren't ready to sit behind a PC 24/7 just to be able to compete with their long-term opponents.

I don't doubt that, right now, in the short term, the update looks like a jackpot for Gameforge. But I wonder what it will leave in the long term. Because more and more players - and I am talking about active players - are saying, "F**k it, I won't spend my whole life doing this" and go.

And there won't really be many new players - at least not ones willing to spend the same amounts on a web browser game as some of the older players did.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's around 15:00 server time, and these are the top 25 player results so far from last night's server reset. This is still far from the end of the day.

The most active players will end up gaining around 30 levels today solely. And now imagine the poor players from this same list who competed with us fairly for all those years - even decades - and who, because of their real‑life situation, can only invest a "somewhat normal" amount of gameplay time... enough to make maybe 3 - 4 levels per day.

This update ruined the experience for many players. Those of us who compete are being turned into robots, and those who don't, who can't... simply won't be able to play and compete with us anymore. Most of them will end up saying "goodbye" to this game sooner rather than later.

Level increase for each player

( NOW level – BEFORE level )

Like said... This is still far from the end of the day.

still for me the first 10 layers give me 27.076 XP, more then enough to pass one lvl.

actually if you are under level 1700 you get 2 levels done, now of course this isn't much at a big level like 3000+ .... and you need to do the 11 to 20 layers so you can get the same results.

Since leveling up seems to be incredibly important to some players, GF could simply offer them the option to purchase levels or Exp in the Voodoo Shop. This would make those players happy, save them time, and help balance their real-life and gaming commitments. 🤣

Quote from argos

Since leveling up seems to be incredibly important to some players, GF could simply offer them the option to purchase levels in the Voodoo Shop. This would make those players happy, save them time, and help balance their real-life and gaming commitments. 🤣

I don't think it's about leveling per se, at least not on the server I'm playing on, but rather about competitiveness and intense battles between two clans of different races that have been going on for 15 years or so.

The bigger and stronger you are, the more you can contribute to the team effort. There's a lot of history, stories, drama, and so on among the players that have built up over the years, so it's completely in line with the spirit of the games.

Quote from Sorcerer

Quote from Dirux

I disagree. Thanks to this update, we can balance things a bit for regular players compared to those using bots.

On the contrary. It's more drastic than ever. You can't balance things even against more active players now, let alone against those who already use bots or will start using them over time.

First 10 layers? Peace of cake, I am doing them 30. Well, several of us on my server do…

Go on vacation for 2 weeks, have a busy couple of weeks or something, and when you come back there will be a 500-level difference. In 2 - 3 weeks.

Quote from imtano2010

I've been playing since 2009 and with the latest update I see people who have been playing for months and have already done what I did in 10 years, they in 3 months. But I don't care, it's a game and that's fine. Think about having fun, don't always complain. I'm 100% in favor of open plans.

I think some of you don't fully understand the implications and consequences of this update. I'm not sure what to attribute that to - maybe not even to you personally, but rather to the lack of competitiveness on the server you play on.

Quote from savage.af

you can do the first 10 layers in under 5 minutes if you are pressed for time, and get more XP then the story mode.

even if you do this twice a day and grave time in between you lvl up faster then doing the story.

The fact that you can do two rounds of ten is completely insignificant. It's like you would do one level every 10 days before the update.

It's a drop in the ocean compared to what the rest of us do on more active servers.

And if server merges ever happen, while some of us are still actively engaged in wars, you'll remain a forgotten and irrelevant factor somewhere far far behind.

Why?

Because while you'll spend what you think is a large part of your day doing those five or ten rounds of first ten layers, I'll be doing 12 - 15 rounds on the first ten, 8 rounds on the second ten, and 6 rounds on the third ten. At a minimum. Sometimes more.

And while you struggle and think you've achieved a lot with 100 - 200 levels per month, I'll be doing 800 per month. And this will accumulate.

And when you eventually want to have fun like the "big boys" by participating in wars instead of just being a bystander in some random semi-inactive clan with no one communicating, there won't be a clan willing to take you in.

Because no top clan is going to be interested in accepting every random player who contributes nothing to the clan in terms of wars, while also posing the risk of being a spy account.

You may say that you don't care about all of that, and that's perfectly fine. But since this is a competitive game where players compete, you can probably imagine that some people do care. And that's perfectly fine as well.

No, the update is bad. That's not a complaint - look, I am doing more levels manually than most of you ever will. So in terms of competitiveness, it actually works for me. But I also know how much of one's life you need to invest to stay relevant and compete in this competitive game now. Just as argos posted above, all the beauty of the game is gone.

It's not about wolves and vamps anymore, but about being a robot - sitting behind a PC for 15 hours a day or slipping into oblivion. People are turning into robots. And even some long-term active players are quitting. Because, well, summer is coming, and they aren't ready to sit behind a PC 24/7 just to be able to compete with their long-term opponents.

I don't doubt that, right now, in the short term, the update looks like a jackpot for Gameforge. But I wonder what it will leave in the long term. Because more and more players - and I am talking about active players - are saying, "F**k it, I won't spend my whole life doing this" and go.

And there won't really be many new players - at least not ones willing to spend the same amounts on a web browser game as some of the older players did.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's around 15:00 server time, and these are the top 25 player results so far from last night's server reset. This is still far from the end of the day.

The most active players will end up gaining around 30 levels today solely. And now imagine the poor players from this same list who competed with us fairly for all those years - even decades - and who, because of their real‑life situation, can only invest a "somewhat normal" amount of gameplay time... enough to make maybe 3 - 4 levels per day.

This update ruined the experience for many players. Those of us who compete are being turned into robots, and those who don't, who can't... simply won't be able to play and compete with us anymore. Most of them will end up saying "goodbye" to this game sooner rather than later.

Level increase for each player

( NOW level – BEFORE level )

Like said... This is still far from the end of the day.

Name	Now	Increase
metalcamp	6.682	+0.017
EUTHANIZER	5.988	+0.012
Sorcerer	6.069	+0.019
Nattyd1.	5.365	+0.003
WhiteLady	5.834	+0.009
Lucian	5.863	+0.011
podgana	5.721	+0.009
AgnesBl	5.215	+0.010
izganjalec	5.259	+0.012
Tomorrow	4.563	+0.001
Achilas	4.211	0.000
AleeX	3.957	0.000
Warnas	5.260	+0.014
Giang97	4.952	+0.019
sreckoeci	4.923	+0.007
jupis	3.992	+0.001
Angkor	3.918	+0.003
Clark	4.421	+0.010
asais	3.766	0.000
bionics	3.490	0.000
Mercury	3.396	0.000
OveRLorD	3.456	+0.010
dika	3.635	+0.002
..ZEUS..	3.396	0.000
Neriokas	2.974	0.000

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I don’t understand what you mean by “sitting in front of the computer like a robot and grinding all day.” Wasn’t Story Mode already the same? People were grinding there for 12+ hours a day too. A player who grinds for 2 hours a day could not compete with someone grinding for 12+ hours, and the gap kept increasing.

So isn’t it the same situation now? The gap between someone who grinds for 12 hours and someone who grinds for 2 hours will increase again, and isn’t that completely normal?

I don’t fully understand what you are complaining about. In the past, if someone went on vacation for 2 weeks, they would fall 10 levels behind. Now they may fall 200 levels behind. But back then, you needed 2 weeks to close that 10-level gap, and today you still need about 2 weeks to close that 200-level gap.

Quote from Sorcerer

Quote from argos

Since leveling up seems to be incredibly important to some players, GF could simply offer them the option to purchase levels in the Voodoo Shop. This would make those players happy, save them time, and help balance their real-life and gaming commitments. 🤣

I don't think it's about leveling per se, at least not on the server I'm playing on, but rather about competitiveness and intense battles between two clans of different races that have been going on for 15 years or so.

The bigger and stronger you are, the more you can contribute to the team effort. There's a lot of history, stories, drama, and so on among the players that have built up over the years, so it's completely in line with the spirit of the games.

Which server are you playing on?

I've been playing bitefight long time ago on old version with old graphics where Tuxator weapon was the ultimate end-game weapon everybody aimed for. Statistics were very important because there was no such things like bonus damage etc. and no battle value. Since then game was changing very slow but with introduction of battle value many players quit. I won't argue with you, instead I will provide some facts:

1. Game before ancestrals was way too slow in progression for higher lvl players comparing to other browser games -> very true

2. Many people were using bots to auto-play grotto and adventure -> true

3. Timing was crucial for progression - strategy to save AP for events -> true

How it is now?

1. Faster lvling without main character, we use troops in ancestral ruins for that -> bad that character is not involved in it but good that we can lvl up faster

2. Bots for bitefight now are pretty much useless because it is not worth doing grotto and adventure (except for the aspects) -> very true

3. Timing is no longer important -> those who play ancestral ruins don't care about 100% xp from grotto etc.

4. Rewards from ancestral ruins is total annoying garbage that we have to delete often to keep inventory space -> very true

5. There is very small space for any mistake - 1 troop more or less can result in full-wipe instead of winning with small losses -> true

6. There is no battle report -> true and it's bad that players cannot see why they failed to complete certain layer

7. There is option to resurrect some of the troops -> true and bad because it's little more p2w but it's ok, we can deal with it

8. Game feels like made to reach 1000 lvl and quit - above lvl 1000 there is literally nothing else to do except lvling and considering spending money to buy premium items for which we have to grind lvls to unlock

9. PvP system is non-existent - very true mainly because of battle value

10. Very few people playing on servers - very true

11. GF is creating new servers for quick money - very true

12. People who were P2W are pissed now because they have to learn ancestral ruins to keep up with others - true

13. Without automation or calculator noone can lvl up fast unless he/she will learn by heart enemy combinations best counters

14. If you try-hard and min-max ancestral ruins system to the limit (I'm not talking about doing layer 1-10 every hour only) you can reach lvl 10000 in 1 year - true.

Quote from TanarisJupiter

I've been playing bitefight long time ago on old version with old graphics where Tuxator weapon was the ultimate end-game weapon everybody aimed for. Statistics were very important because there was no such things like bonus damage etc. and no battle value. Since then game was changing very slow but with introduction of battle value many players quit. I won't argue with you, instead I will provide some facts:

1. Game before ancestrals was way too slow in progression for higher lvl players comparing to other browser games -> very true

2. Many people were using bots to auto-play grotto and adventure -> true

3. Timing was crucial for progression - strategy to save AP for events -> true

How it is now?

1. Faster lvling without main character, we use troops in ancestral ruins for that -> bad that character is not involved in it but good that we can lvl up faster

2. Bots for bitefight now are pretty much useless because it is not worth doing grotto and adventure (except for the aspects) -> very true

3. Timing is no longer important -> those who play ancestral ruins don't care about 100% xp from grotto etc.

4. Rewards from ancestral ruins is total annoying garbage that we have to delete often to keep inventory space -> very true

5. There is very small space for any mistake - 1 troop more or less can result in full-wipe instead of winning with small losses -> true

6. There is no battle report -> true and it's bad that players cannot see why they failed to complete certain layer

7. There is option to resurrect some of the troops -> true and bad because it's little more p2w but it's ok, we can deal with it

8. Game feels like made to reach 1000 lvl and quit - above lvl 1000 there is literally nothing else to do except lvling and considering spending money to buy premium items for which we have to grind lvls to unlock

9. PvP system is non-existent - very true mainly because of battle value

10. Very few people playing on servers - very true

11. GF is creating new servers for quick money - very true

12. People who were P2W are pissed now because they have to learn ancestral ruins to keep up with others - true

13. Without automation or calculator noone can lvl up fast unless he/she will learn by heart enemy combinations best counters

14. If you try-hard and min-max ancestral ruins system to the limit (I'm not talking about doing layer 1-10 every hour only) you can reach lvl 10000 in 1 year - true.

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I like your analysis of the game, but you forgot to mention an important detail. Players stop playing and the servers become inactive; the solution would be to merge them, but that never happens.

It's better to keep opening useless servers than to merge the ones with few players with the most active ones.